Misogyny: the Tale of Woefully Perpetuated Ignorance

I am a feminist, there, I said it; that dreadful word that everyone seems to willfully discern incorrect definitions from. To clarify for any haters on feminism that may chance upon this blog. Feminism: the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities (Merriam Webster online dictionary) Feminism is not misandry, nor is it the belief that women should rule over men. It is quite simply the movement to promote equality based upon gender.

So, as a feminist, and specifically hailing from a -mainly- christian theistic worldview, it pains me greatly to see articles such as the ones listed here:
http://nycpastor.com/2014/12/29/10-women-christian-men-should-not-marry/
http://nycpastor.com/2014/10/23/ten-men-christian-women-should-not-marry/

Now, I discovered the first article whilst browsing through my Facebook feed, you know, bored on a Sunday, avoiding schoolwork kind of browse. As I read I am fairly certain my eyes widened considerably, my pulse increased, and my curly hair sprouted new levels of frizz due to stress… ok so the last one is metaphorical, but I seriously could not fathom the ignorance that led Dr. Stephen Kim to lace what could have been a perfectly innocent faith based article with misogynistic ideas that send shudders through me even in recollection. Of course, after reading the first listed article I felt compelled to investigate Dr. Kim’s conclusions on the opposing spectrum. Though demeaning towards men in its own right, the second article seemed to me more common sense based especially when laid out in bullet point format.

Listed below are the things Dr. Kim states that Christian men and women should avoid in their respective spouses

10 Women that Christian Men should not marry:
1. The Unbeliever
2. The Divorcee
3. The Older Woman
4. The Feminist
5. The Sexy-Dresser
6. The Loud-Mouth
7. The Child-Hater
8. The Wander-Luster
9. The Career Woman
10. The Devotion-less Woman

10 Men that Christian Women should not marry:
1. The Unbeliever
2. The Younger Man
3. The Spiritually Younger Man
4. The Divorced Man
5. The Angry Man
6. The Narcissist
7. The Liar
8. The Addict
9. The Idle
10. The Un-Evangelist

What I see here are two things; firstly, a specifically delineated list of innately hurtful ideas (particularly 4-9) that a patriarchal society tends to harbor towards women in contrast to the more generalized list against men, and secondly, a complete lack of sentience that these lists are simultaneously insulting to both genders but extremely insulting towards women, portraying the author as a misogynist. Whether or not misogyny was his intent is negligible.

What I really see in the second list is a list that (from 5-9) is really applicable to both genders even in non-faith based relationships. It is not a particularly good idea to commit yourself to another who is irrationally angry, obsessed solely with themselves, a liar, addicted to something that draws them away from you, or cannot support his/herself independently. These, to me, seem perfectly logical things for both men and women to avoid in their chosen spouse. Please correct me if I am wrong on that account. What I find incredibly difficult to swallow is the injustice aimed at women in general but also the men in the 3 overlapping categories which I shall discuss lastly.

In the category of women that Christian men should avoid, however there is a deep seated notion that there has been and will always be one place for a woman, the home. A woman should be a loyal, devoted, kind, nurturing housewife who gives up all her dreams and wishes to serve her husband and raise a family. And it is on that idea that I put my foot down and refuse to be silent, the Patriarchy and its ideals be damned, I accept the consequences of my opinion.

A good Christian man should not marry a feminist.
How can I word this delicately… To insinuate that feminism is against God’s will “demonstrates a level of ineptitude that borders on the imbecilic! And I mean that in a very caring way.” (Thank you Captain Amelia for your excellently quotable words) What one must take into account is that the bible, and all its contents therein, are filtered through a patriarchal worldview that contains multiple other aspects that society does not accept today (slavery for example). Therefore, and again I quote Captain Amelia, “Let me make this as… monosyllabic as possible. I… don’t much care for this..” opinion you hold good sir. I believe it to be quite flawed and incongruent with the ideas of Christianity. Christianity is a worldview that should be seeking to equip and promote all people, not segregate and belittle based on sex, race, age, or social-economic standing; yet consistently I see the exact opposite from the people of my worldview.

A good Christian man should not marry a sexy-dresser
Might I just pose a query? What exactly does being a “sexy-dresser” entail? A woman can be sexy in many different outfits. sexy-dressing does not equal a stripper’s wardrobe, and even if it did, the beautiful thing is a woman may dress however she pleases. Perhaps a “sexy-dresser” is not correct for a christian man, but just because she dresses “sexy” does not automatically eliminate her. There are many more things to consider than someone’s dress.

A good Christian man should not marry a loud-mouth
Well, that eliminates a lot of women I know who simply have an opinion. I believe Dr. Kim should instead call this section “The Gossiper” which seems more closely related to his point.  A big mouth does not equal a gossiper. It implies that someone speaks before thinking or is overbearing in their vocalized opinions, but this is not the same as gossiping, nor does it create a problem within a relationship if the other party understands and accepts it.

A good Christian man should not marry a child-hater
I’m sorry, but when did not wanting to have children mean that someone is a child hater? Did I miss the memo? was there a mass email/Facebook post/twitter update that I should have read? Not only Dr. Kim are you equivocating child-hating with the desire to be married without children, but you are actually stating that it is unbiblical to be married as a Christian and not have children. No. No! I cannot overlook that erroneous statement. The ability to have children is not a reason to have children. Are children a blessing? Yes! However, there are many MANY reasons for a couple to decide against having children, genetic disease, insufficient income, dedication to careers that would put undue stress on a child. Aside from all of these perfectly logical reasons, there is one that matters most: some people do not want to be parents. That’s it, they simply don’t want to be parents, and I challenge someone to convince me that it is actually beneficial for a child to be born to parents that don’t want a child. Just because one possesses the biological tools to be a parent does not mean that someone SHOULD be a parent.

A good Christian man should not marry a Wander-Luster
So then, who will be our missionaries to the world? Because obviously the desire to travel, see new places, seek new experiences, those desires are clearly not proper. Again we see Dr. Kim circling back to a woman’s proper place in the home. (why I think he’s a misogynist I have no idea because he is clearly not discriminating against women in any way…) All I can say to this complete lack of understanding–and the implications this though has toward the missionary–is shame. There are people who risk their lives everyday to spread the gospel that they heartily believe in to the people they have come to love and care for through their travels and yet Dr. Kim has the audacity to condemn their wanderlust, their desire to understand other cultures, other humans, other lands than that of their birth. The spirit of wanderlust is a beautiful tool in the spread of the gospel; without people who possess this desire, the mission field would die at the hands of the contented.

A good Christian man should not marry a career woman
If being a good christian man entails being intimidated by a woman’s career and her desire to continue in that career even when she has a family, then I pray that God sends me an atheist who respects my worldview and encourages my career. I apologize if I seem abrupt but I am not going tens of thousands of dollars in debt to finish college and build myself a career  just to give it all up because my husband wants me to stay at home and play house. That being said, I definitely do not condemn those women who want to be stay at home mothers, Ladies, you do your thing! Everyone is different and there should be no set mold of a “good little Christian wife”… no sorry, wife implies that there is some sort of equality, I believe homemaker would be more applicable to Dr. Kim’s ideal.

The remaining sections of Dr. Kim’s articles that I wish to analyze are applicable to both men and women in his opinion. And though I know I have already written much, I humbly request my dear readers that you continue with me just a bit longer in this journey.

A good Christian man or woman should not marry an unbeliever
If I could make an amendment to the statement it would read as follows “Any man or woman should not choose a spouse that cannot accept and support them in their worldview.” For some couples, being of opposing worldviews is not feasible. It can create tension and hurt when mutual respect is not present. However, when two people can respect each other’s worldview and encourage them in it despite their own beliefs to the contrary, that exhibits a healthy, growing relationship that promotes mutual respect. Being a believer does not mean you cannot be with an unbeliever but that you must choose your partner wisely-as they should with you-and in doing so choose a partner who respects both you and your belief system.

A good Christian man or woman should not marry a divorcee
Well according to Dr. Kim’s article (specifically the second listed), my father and mother should be immediately getting a divorce. Sorry Mum and Dad, looks like your loving relationship that has lasted 25 years with two kids is over…. We live in a different time from that of the bible, divorce has sadly become a part of our society. Still, to insist that marrying a divorcee unless the marriage ended due to their spouse’s infidelity death, or faith conversion is wrong… it is incorrect. Divorce happens for many reasons, domestic abuse, infidelity, the money runs out, mental illness, the list can continue for ages. To mark another human being for past actions instead of discerning their intensions from the present creates a level of bigotry and hatred that serves to drive the wounded from the church doors instead of welcoming them in. May I please remind any Christian who condemns others for divorce of the atrocities committed by King David, a man whom the bible says was after God’s own heart. He was not only an adulterer, but a liar, and a murderer. Consider that in your calculations.

A good Christian man should not marry an older woman/A good christian woman should not marry a younger man
Regardless of the quoted study that says “If you’re a woman two or more years older than your husband, your marriage is 53 percent more likely to end in divorce than if he was one year younger to three years older.” (Source: Rebecca Kippen, Bruce Chapman and Peng Yu, “What’s Love Got to Do With It? Homogamy and Dyadic Approaches to Understanding Marital Instability,” Melbourne Institute of Applied Economic and Social Research, 2009.) Age is not the only factor to base a decision of a life partner on. We can just as easily throw around the statistic that “If you’re a married American, your marriage is between 40 and 50 percent likely to end in divorce.” (Source: David Popenoe, “The Future of Marriage in America,” University of Virginia/National Marriage Project/The State of Our Unions, 2007). Does it then follow, Dr. Kim, that no one should marry if they are American? I am quite sure your opinion on procreation as children are the survival of the church would contend with that. Also the assertion that a man should be older because he is the ‘head of the household’ is in my opinion bollocks. Just because a women is older than her husband does not mean she would not respect him, the argumentation for an elder male simply propagates the idea of male dominion over a woman. This along with the idea that the man must be spiritually older than the woman is weak in argumentation and relies heavily on the traditional patriarchy that fuels WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) feelings of Entitlement and authority.

In summation. I encourage everyone to read the two articles I included. I hope that by reading my thoughts on the subject you, dear reader, will understand the plight of the feminist, in a world dripping with male chauvinism. Above all else, I truly hope you do not misconstrue my words as misandry or hatred towards my brothers, but that you will read them as they are intended, a plea for a better tomorrow where we do not have to teach our daughters to fear men but a tomorrow where we teach our sons to respect women and each value the other as human entities deserving of respect.

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9 thoughts on “Misogyny: the Tale of Woefully Perpetuated Ignorance

  1. You are seeing what you want to see, not what is really there.

    First, Feminism. According to 2/3 dictionaries feminism is the advocacy for women’s rights on the basis of social economic and political equality to men. This is radically different than the definition you posted in that it’s not about equality. If it is not advocating for more rights for women it is not equality.

    Based off of your feminism, you have a very bad interpretation of the lists. They both say basically the same thing. Don’t marry someone that steps outside the outdated dogmatic regressive and harmful “traditional” gender roles. Women shouldn’t marry men that are not gleefully putting themselves in harm’s way to protect and provide for women. Men shouldn’t marry women that take any risks or do almost anything to put themselves in harm’s way.

  2. That Pastor is not a misogynist. Whether you agree with him or not, he’s addressing things that have led to the ruination, in GENERAL, of families…in PARTICULAR, Christian families.

    There are many respondents to his two blog entries who are not believers, or god-fearing people, in general…and as such what he’s writing DOES NOT APPLY to them.

    Are you one of those people?

  3. “Being a believer does not mean you cannot be with an unbeliever”

    This statement that you wrote is categorically false. There is a DIRECT scriptural admonition to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers..its in 2 Corinthians 6:14. If one is pressing for the mark of the high calling in Christ, then it is not in their best interest to engage romantically with someone who isn’t. In fact it indicates a profound lack of wisdom and judgement.

    In any case, I saw your pingback to the post he wrote and was curious as to what you re-blogged.

    I don’t want any conflict or fighting with you, so I surely hope you don’t attack me for what I’ve written, lest you prove the point of so many that you consider misogynist.

  4. This is a fantastic counter argument and I really appreciate it! I was sickened by this article as a Christian feminist and am glad to see some other people were disappointed as well. Well written and supported. Thank you for being a cool person!

  5. @genderneutrallanguage: please explain what you mean by, “You are seeing what you want to see, not what is really there.” It is a hit-and-run statement which leads the reader to ask, “So…What? Explain.”
    Also, I believe that the definitions of feminism are the same, but different wording. Also, 2/3 dictionaries suggests all dictionaries from children’s to adult; please give formal citation. Merriam-Webster dictionary is a formal source and can be counted as a final word due to it’s academic status (dictionary.com is not an academically accepted formal definition).
    While the author is a feminist, the “bad interpretation” is actually not a bad interpretation at all but in fact a common-sense, if personal, argument against what what is in fact demeaning and degrading expectations of women. Agreed, the lists say similar things, but there is a difference.
    Also, in your second paragraph it is not clear whether, outside of the “bad interpretation”, there is clear agreement or disagreement with Pt. Kim’s articles.

    @Patrick Pedat Ebediyah Golston
    -Firstly, I find it interesting that because a woman who is feminist in her views and disagreeing with a pastor is asked if she is not a God-Fearing Person. There is quite a dose of judgment in that question alone; I could actually ask the same of you. You could be a Bible believer, but are you actually a God-Fearing person.
    As in, do you actually fear a God who will eventually judge you on your own judgments and interpretation of His word? -SideNote- the author of this article actually states that she is a “God fearing Christian” as you have asked.
    -What has led to the ruination of families is actually inequality in the partnership: financial difficulties, abuse of wife/husband/children, sexual problems, cheating, the emotion of not being valued by the other spouse, the list goes on and on. The Bible lists relationships with the Unbeliever, Older Woman, the Feminist (don’t believe me? Look up Deborah, Huldah, Miriam, Zipporah), the Sexy-Dresser, the Loud-Mouth, the Child-Hater, the Wander-Luster, etc. and actually how successful each were as well as exceptions to each. More importantly, the Bible also shows Jesus’ relationship to each of of these types of people and His love and acceptance of the individual–all the while hating the sin.
    Here are a few more of my other points:
    -Men ought not to marry a feminist; women however are not warned against marrying a man who does not acknowledge God’s given role for women. Genesis records God taking a rib so that the man is neither above the woman nor is the woman subordinate to the man. A woman is to be man’s helpmeet, a tag-team in today’s words. While the physical difference (fast twitch and slow twitch fiber difference as well as muscle mass and reproductive capabilities) is there, God still gave man and women similarities in body structure for a reason–to do as much as the other.
    -In fact, while gender roles seem to be a concept that has endured for centuries in the western world, according to the textbook, “Gender: Psychological Perspectives”, ” The current gender stereotypes, especially those about women, reflect beliefs that appeared during the 19th century, the Victorian era (Lewin, 1984c). Before the 19th century, most people lived and worked on farms where men and women worked together.” It continues to describe the Industrial Revolution as the major divisive point of gender roles. Out of this the Doctrine of the Two Spheres and the Cult of True Womanhood emerged.
    -If these lists were followed, there would be few marriage-able women.
    -To address yourUnbeliever statement:
    The “Unbeliever” is often said due to the “unequal yoking” in 2 Cor. 6:14; however in context there is no association of it with marriage. Ezra 10:11 speaks of separating God’s people with the people of the land and with foreign wives, but there are many exceptions made to this (i.e. Rahab, Ruth, Orpah). Also, if that were the case I would never have been born. 1 Cor. 7:16 also states, “Don’t you wives realize that your husbands might be saved because of you? And don’t you husbands realize that your wives might be saved because of you?” Remember, Paul was writing at a time where Greeks and Romans married Judean Jews and Christians. While he did not encourage missionary dating/marrying, Paul says in 1 Cor. 7:12-13, “Now, I will speak to the rest of you, though I do not have a direct command from the Lord. If a Christian man has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to continue living with him, he must not leave her. And if a Christian woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to continue living with her, she must not leave him.”
    -When two people enter the marriage/dating process they are usually attempting to be at the top of their game, despite the fact that they are humans and have flaws due to their past backgrounds (the unmarriageable traits being their flaws). They have the best intentions, but as humans they bring their flaws into a marriage. Uncontrollable things like their age, forever-in-the-works personality, etc.

    In summary, the author could most certainly be misogynistic. Merriam-Webster Dic. calls it, “The hatred of women” and truthfully with the stricture Pt. Kim is placing on women, women ought not be able to disagree with their husbands, be subservient, deferential, and basically not attempt anything risky in life–except childbirth, of course, because that isn’t the riskiest thing a woman could ever attempt (sarcasm, yes)–so while “hatred” may not be completely fitting, the implications are that women are not men’s equals as God originally meant. To not treat and honor God’s creations as He meant them to be, to attempt to define and place It into a box, to de-moralize through confinement of their soul and talents and capabilities, free thought, free speech–this is to dishonor God.

    Finally, to write your opinion is to invite criticism. She may not reply to you, but other humans certainly will–as I am prime example of. If you are afraid that if she replies, she will prove that Pt. Kim and others are actually misogynist, that is her right and the enlightenment of others.

    Before the Bible is to be used, context, cross-referencing, and historical accuracy must be researched. Above all, the character of Jesus who died on the cross for us, and His behavior to those on the “Do Not Marry If…” List in particular, must be particularly examined for His is the behavior we as followers of Christ ought to imitate.

    • Thank you for your gracious response.

      I have no concerns over what the author of this Blog, nor her respondents wish to communicate.

      As such, I’m sure what while one thing we probably share is a common disdain for Racism/White Supremacy, we are likely to diverge in our ideas of what scriptural holiness entails.

      Nonetheless, the type of woman that a man who considers himself a disciple of Christ should be solely determined by that man, and that man only; and no woman has a say so in that – and her opinions hold no weight in that at all.

      In like fashion, there was a corresponding list he wrote for the women, and no man of any good sense – or maturity – would waste time inveighing against the type of man such a woman prefers. If said man doesn’t measure up, then he needs to, if he chooses to redeem his time (or not) trying to measure up, show and prove – or he can dismiss the list as being inapplicable to him, and seek out a woman for whom both of their lots in life are congruent.

      In my opinion, most of his points are valid (in light of scripture), and a couple are questionable.

      The bottom line is that it behooves both women AND men to select a partner that fits their OWN best interests…interests that should not be dictated by anyone else. Many of this Pastors suggestions make very good sense for both men and women.

      It’s bizarre that the women critics aren’t as outraged about a man telling them what type of man they should look for – as opposed to him telling MEN what they should look for. He wasn’t talking to you, he was talking to men.

      I personally think the list he wrote for women was SPOT on, and he wrote it waaaay nicer than I would, because there are women in my city that wouldn’t DATE merely because of the type of incorrigible men (so-called ‘Christian’ men too) in my age bracket that are making the rounds in my city. It’s something I’d tell my daughters, nieces, and goddaughters who were starting to date.

      What are the issues, if any, do you ladies have with the list he proposed for WOMEN? It makes perfect sense to me.

      Not to mention, it’s just a list, that seems to be founded on mostly scriptural principles. There are most certainly other factors a man or woman should consider when choosing a partner, of which fundamentally should be the chief commonality of being a disciple of Christ – at least on your level, or higher.

      If Christ isn’t the center and fulcrum for your endeavor, then, well, ya gots problems, and I can tell you that, for me, some of my biggest mistakes were engaging with women whom I thought were devout, who ended up being libertine, bohemian, faithless, lukewarm, and solipsistic.

      But I don’t blame them…I blame ME for trolling the pigsty. And so, if I had a list, I suppose one item I’d suggest men not do is troll the pigsty. 🙂

  6. No problem.

    -If you have no concerns over what the author or her respondents wish to communicate you need not defend your opinion.
    -I do not disdain Racism/White Supremacy; I abhor them because it is disrespect of God’s creation and that it is complete opposition against the fact that He sent His Son to earth to save everyone, racist, KKK, gay, white, straight, atheists, etc. And yes, I’m quite sure yours and my definition of scriptural holiness is different.
    -Only God can define the role of the woman. To say that only a man who considers himself a disciple of Christ to be the final say on what a woman’s “type” ought to be, and that her opinion of herself has no weight with what the man says of her–that is to take away her voice and ability to reason and makes her no better than a breeding cow.
    Take a look at how Christ deals with women in the gospels.
    -He has a few valid points in light of scripture.
    -Yes, both man and woman ought to select a partner fitting their own best interest and that, if they are followers of Christ, they do their own research on what God and Christ say about the roles of men and women in the Bible instead of referring to and depending on an external human (pastor or layman or commentator) to define the roles they ought to play in each other’s life.
    -He may be addressing it to men but in telling men what women they ought to be looking for he puts a criteria up for women to fit into if they want a “Christian” man. Also, in putting up the criteria he is slapping strong women believers in the faith who fall into some or all of the criteria. Once again, only God knows the heart and a man ought not to attempt to judge where they have no authority.
    -I am quite sure the list he wrote was nicer than you would. He has a few good points but also, as stated, quite a few questionable ones.
    -Why do you assume I am a woman? That is actually very presumptuous.
    -Mostly founded on POPULAR scriptural principles. Once the entire Bible is read and studied, cross-referenced, and the asking of the Holy Spirit to guide one’s thoughts and reading, then I think the list ought to be made and in detail.
    -I have seen many relationships where Christ is not the center of the relationship and a more loving and Christ-like union was made than those between so called “Christians”. Agreed, however, I have seen many females biggest mistakes were engaging in relationships with supposedly devout men only to have them drop the woman once they found out she had a past (despite falling in love with Christ and changing their life), so as you said: faithless, narcissistic, only putting on a show of being devout, and were so deep in Christianity that they forgot that it is actually a religion based on the life and discipleship of the Man who came to earth to save not only their sorry selves but those around them.
    -I would highly suggest that women also do not cavort with the “pigsty” of men who put on a holier-than-thou attitude instead of helping their “helper in Christ” to gain better understanding of God, as well as accepting the woman’s help in getting closer to Christ. Christianity is not Hinduism where the wife gets to heaven on the coat tails of the man. Because, to paraphrase, “Who knows if you will help your husband know God? Who knows if you will help your wife to know God?”
    -Your experiences are unfortunate; your perspective that those women who are “pigs” are creatures to be abhorred instead of saved or loved by Christ (of whom you are supposed to be His instrument) even more so.

    All the best in your hunt outside of the pigsty. The problem is, this world is a pigsty, and you are merely another boar in the pigsty of this world. You are merely another gender in a pigsty. To look for a pristine pig in a world full of muck is difficult, but remember, no matter how pristine the pig–she is still a pig. Why? because she is still human and will never be anything more until God comes to this world and changes us.

    • None of my responses were attempted veiled insults at you, just for the record, and in no way have I characterized YOU or your views, whether I agree with them or not.

      And it’s not because, like so many women believe, that a man can’t handle a “strong” woman, because “strong” is relative. It’s because being argumentative isn’t necessary.

      As such, I will respond short and sweet, because I’m unequivocally certain that any back and forth would only devolve into animus, which is not something I am going to have imputed upon me.

      The internet is a public forum, and he put up a post that is certainly worthy of public examination, scrutiny, and debate. So, with that in mind, you’re correct that the women were within their bound to respond to his post.

      He’s writing as a Pastor, shepherd, and man who allegedly has some degree of authority in the body of Christ, and perhaps through study and inspiration. He decided to share this on the internet. It’s not unlike a preacher writing a book, or a televangelist giving ‘inspired’ advice on their weekly broadcast.

      There is exegesis and eisegesis in most all teaching and preaching, and his two posts were indeed no exception.

      The question, for believers, is if his writing is scripturally, historically, and contextually sound, and does it bear witness to the Law, the Prophets, and the Gospel of scripture, for the Bible SHOULD be the STANDARD for whatever this man is going to present.

      For believer, the Bible should be the de-facto STANDARD for matters of your life, and since marriage is an extremely grave undertaking, the choice of partner should be based on some STANDARD that is strictly Biblical.

      For those people responding on his blog who are not Christ followers, then it doesn’t apply to them.

      For those people who consider themselves to be such, they need to:

      1. Examine the SCRIPTURES, in great DETAIL, for THEMSELVES, to see if this man is bastardizing the Word of Truth. Not by their feeeelings, or what makes them haaaapy, or unhaaapy, or what doesn’t set right in their heart.

      2. Examine THEMSELVES to see if their lives are aligned with the Word of Truth.

      3. Reject or Accept the conclusions.

      I’d settle for a devout believer in Messiah, who calls upon the name of Yahweh…who was learned in scripture, who hungered and thirsted for righteousness, who rejected the baser elements of this world, who rejected and denounced ALL the works of hasatan, who loved Messiah more than me, who kept His Commandments, the Sabbath, the Feast Days…who doesn’t subscribe to any ‘ism’ that undermines the life of the believer according to scripture and who believes in justice and correctness at ALL times in ALL places in the known universe for ALL people without exception – and who understands the god-breathed DIFFERENCES between men and women, their ROLES and RESPONSIBILITIES in light of the truth of Scripture and EMBRACES that unequivocally.

      I will tell you right now, that as a MAN, those characteristics are WOEFULLY difficult to find; almost impossible in this day and age. I could quote book, chapter, and verse on why those characteristics are valid, and still have a torrent of women who would reject and find fault in the majority of those characteristics, but I will not change them – ever.

      Thus, your characterization of what I’m looking for as “pristine” is false, and your characterization of the “world” is being a pigsty does not reflect my view either. I don’t think of “the world” as a pigsty, either. The fact is that there are people who CHOOSE to be unrepentant in their lives, who REJECT Christ, REJECT the Word, who REJECT goodness and loving-kindness. What I was saying is that I gave a part of myself people like that…THAT’S what I meant by trolling the pigsty, and it’s not in a BELIEVERS best interest to invest time in such people – MEN or WOMEN – and there is nothing you can say that would or should encourage someone to do otherwise.

      That’s what I was talking about.

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